November 24, 1999
All you need is some pontoon boats.  I have plans in my Engineering
research.  They are awkward and big and a logistical nightmare!  Fitzhughs
Crossing baby!  I'll stick to gray uni's for now.
Steve Bechtold
Company H
2d Wisconsin

November 24, 1999
There is some discussion about Bridges, Pontoon Boots, and river crossing
operations during the ACW on cw-reenactors forum.
http://www.cwreenactors.com/dcforum/general/967.html

 Why do I think of the 6th WVI and 24th MI and Fredricksburg everytime I see
Robert Redford saying "Hail Mail, Full of Grace" as the paratroopers cross
the river in the movie "A Bridge to Far"? (subtitled: "A Movie Too Long")?

As a former Wisconsin Lake-side dweller, I think it would be exciting to
combine riverine assault tactics and ACW re-enacting.....count me in on one
of these!!!!!!

RJ Samp
Bugler   2nd WVI, Co. K

Three Danada Square East
PMB # 173
Wheaton, IL   60187

rjsamp@ix.netcom.com <mailto:rjsamp@ix.netcom.com>

630.871.0828

November 22, 1999

HEY!  

I can drink beer!  I don't even care if it is Milwaukee Beer as
opposed to Chippewa Falls Beer!...My own maybe?!  I am in for gray if we
come to a consensus for style.  I am thinking ('cause we play Co. H.) of
building a Randall Guard style uni.  But if we do Company K, somebody
should get the style down and I'll build that one.  I'll go with whatever
the major consensus is.

By the way, I appreciate all of the input and discussion!  Very very much.
I was hoping to get some feed back on these uniforms as we only have a year
or so to go to make the presentation if we are going to do it.

Steve

this is exactly what we're looking for.

Obviously Scott's point about concentrating on an 1862 through 1863 2nd
Wisconsin Impression Regular Army uniform has to be first and foremost.
Secondary impression of a generic 1863+ Eastern And Western impression unit
is next in priority (we did darn good at G135 with Kepi's and Sack Coats, as
well as Chicky99 with Hardee's sans brass and Sack Coats).

And of course LEARNING THE BUGLE CALLS is our number one priority (OK,
OK....).

But I think there is sufficient interest (and funds???/spousal consent?) in
forming a 20-40 man unit in Wisconsin State Militia Uniforms that can be
used for Bull Run, 1861 Camp Randall, and 1861 Wilson's Creek type
portrayals. Maybe we get more impression for the buck than, for example,
investing in Great Coats (that the 2nd WVI quickly threw out on campaign),
or trying to increase the number of Lorenz .54's in the 2nd WVI.

Don't know if going the Gray Militia Uniform route requires TOTAL
Authenticity, just as we haven't gone totally authentic on the 2nd WVI
impression. So we don't have to insist that the 1861 impression includes .69
muskets, or even .69 Belgian Muskets. Just as we don't insist on .54
Lorenz's for the 1862 impression (or re-drilled .577 Lorenz's for a 7th WVI
impression).

Gray Forage Cap with supports...
Gray Frock Coat
Gray pants
Becomes step 1, as a darn good start.
Buff Leather Leathers are step two.
A .69 musket is Step Three
A .69 Belgian Musket is step 10,000.

AS A SUGGESTION, we could designate this 'Gray' unit as the "Wisconsin
Rifles" (the OLD Company K, prior to becoming cannon cockers). Anyone doing
a decent AJ Langworthy impression as a beer drinking Milwaukee-ite has first
shot at being Captain???

Am personally interested in making this work somehow, without detracting
from our overall mission impression of a Blue 2nd WVI.

RJ Samp

Bugler   2nd WVI, Co. K


Three Danada Square East
PMB # 173
Wheaton, IL   60187

rjsamp@ix.netcom.com <mailto:rjsamp@ix.netcom.com>

630.871.0828

I agree with you %110 percent.  It would be nice however to form perhaps a
company of those who do have the resources and desire for that event under
the command of our (the Second's) unit leaders.  I would love to do it
myself.  I know that others would too.

But I too must encourage all new members to concentrate on the hats, blue
and leggings as this is a one time shot (for at least five years anyway).

The following year would be the grand review of the events that lead to the
nickname that all versed in CW hx recognize.  With events such as Brawner's
Farm, Second Bull Run, South Mountain and Antietam, lets face it those are
more important events for the Second, but I still want to show the year of
innocence lost.

I would like to see us all play the Second, those who can play in a company
or two in gray and those who do not wish to or are still in the process of
aquiring their first uniform, form the rest of the unit in blue.  If that
creates a problem...then I'll form in blue, for the cohesion of the unit is
more important to me than all of that.  I still think that it would be very
cool for those who can.

Steve

Hi all,

I think it's great that some of you are all excited about wearing gray
uniforms for a possible 1st. Bull Run impression.

But it's all going to come down to $$$$.  Some folks still don't have their
navy frock coat or a great coat, and I would prefer to see them go after
these items, as they would see allot more wear.

I also would not want to exclude folks from our ranks 'cause they did not
have the money or the desire to shell out money for a uniform that would
have limited use.

It's a neat idea, and I don't want to dampen the thought, but I'm also a
realist and know this want be rec. with the same enthusiasm as some of you.

Take Care,
Scott

PS Great info Marc.

November 17, 1999 
2nd Wisconsin at Wilson's Creek 2000?

WOW!  Thanks Marc.  This helps quite a bit.  So it seems to me that if I
 follow Fredrick Lythsons' photo, it would probably quite accurate for
First Bull Run.  Frock with black trim and piping on the trousers with two
shades of gray.  These would fairly easy to turn out using a couple of differnt
dye lots.  Looks like he wears buff leathers too.  Any idea what might have
been on the rectangular breast plate?  I must also procure a Harper's Ferry
Musket.

Steve

Hi!
Regarding the questions on the uniform of the Second, many of the
companies arrived at Camp Randall either wearing no uniform, their
militia uniforms, or (in the case where a militia company enlisted more
men to fill it up) a mixture of both. Orders were placed to fill the
needs of the regiment for uniforms, but they were not placed with only
one contractor. Thus using one of the chapters in our (unfinished!) book
on the Second, I find:

Before and during the turmoil of enlistment, the uniforms of the various
companies had begun to arrive.  While the Beloit men had gotten theirs
only in time to head for home, the other companies soon began to take on
a more standard appearance than before.  Still, it soon became apparent
that the practice of contracting the uniform construction out to the
various towns had produced a less than desirable result. The Randall
Guards had received theirs about May 12th, and were soon to be seen in a
"gray cloth cap, coat and pants, with  a small black stripe down the
latter, while the coat is adorned with black cloth buttons, instead of
metal; which latter, however is deemed by many preferable."

Another, more honest source, described them as having "such a variety of
shades of gray, one man having a light gray coat and dark gray pants, the next dark gray for the coat and light gray for the pants, that they can hardly be said to be uniformed."
A La Crosse recruit, thought "the uniform is the most shabby looking
thing I ever saw, yet  it was the best that could be furnished under the
circumstances. No two are alike, scarcity of cloth rendering it
necessary to take anything that approximated towards gray to make up the
number of uniforms wanted. "
He went on to note that his company's appearance would be better, as the
pants were to be all of one color of gray, and the coats another. The
Belle City Rifles were the luckiest company as they sported well made
wool uniforms from a hometown mill. As all began to be clothed, the
appearance of the regiment when all nine companies were drawn up must
have been striking.

In the following days the rest of the came in.  Although they were still
" not uniform in color." Elon Brown recounted that:
after being dressed in new suits we returned to our quarters
feeling
like fighting cocks. On guard again from 2 to 4 P.M. It was very warm
and keeping my uniform on I was quite uncomfortable, but contented
myself by thinking that it was cooler here than in Washington or New
Orleans and stood it as well as I could.
Also beginning to arrive were havelocks, constructed by the women at
home and sent to the men from their town. Made of "some white material,
which reflects, instead of absorbs, the sun's rays." It was fitted over
the caps to drape over the neck of the wearer, thus protecting the men
from the effects of the sun found in the deep south.  While it gave the
women at home something to do for those who were gone, and the receipt
of the item brought a new item to be added to the uniform, their
eventual use was more likely to be as a towel or swab to clean a
musket.
Regarding what was worn at 1st Bull Run:

Among the items left behind were the new summer uniforms. It was felt
that the woolen uniforms would be better suited than the new lighter
ones as the men would march without tents, and the nights had been cool.
For the officers though, their grey uniforms were no longer necessary.
They had procured fine new blue uniforms per Army Regulations. Supposing
though that the battle would be won and a parade would follow the
officers hired a private wagon to carry their dress uniforms, and other
belongings, on the march. For the coming battle then the 2nd would
remain in ragged State grey.

Regarding the men's arms, the following is an interesting item:

July 13th brought an interesting change within the regiment. Company B,
the right flank company, was given a rifled musket rather than the
smoothbore Harpers Ferry musket that the other  companies carried.  As
Dick Carter of Co. C stated, "The La Crosse Light Guard... are now armed
with a very superior rifle, self capping." This was probably the M1855
Maynard primed Rifle Musket. Rather than place a seperate brass priming
cap on the nipple of the musket before each firing, this rifle had a
paper tape with primers already placed upon it, much like that for a
child's cap gun. This tape was pulled along as the hammer was cocked,
placing a fresh primer over the nipple. With this rifle Company B could
hit its targets at a longer range, with more accurate fire.  The problem
though, was that now the regiment would need two unique types of
ammunition for its men, as the musket's and rifle's ammunition could not
substituted for the other's.
>>> >
>>> >Hope this is of some interest and help to you all.
 Marc Storch

Sue wrote:

Still arguing as far as I'm concerned. The picture Lance says is the
correct
uniform was taken in Madison, not out east and they boys received
their uniform on July 4th in the east. I personally think it's like the
other early state uniforms but Lance does not want to let go of his neat
picture - which, I believe, is the company uniform from Camp Randall. I don't
think anyone's going to pay any attention to those considerations and will
go with a grey frock but whatever - I'm just one of those silly girls,,,,,,
TTFN

I have looked at a couple of pictures and read Mr. Maddus' article in
"The Bloody Railroad Cut"  The picture that I often look at for Camp
Randall, is Frederick Lythson's.  It doesn't match the description in Mr. Maddus'
 article, and has buff leathers. The original uniform of Company H
 (Lythson's Company and mine!)  was mocked in the Madison Papers as
having no matching shade of gray.  They were outfitted later with State
procured uniforms for the whole regiment so that the regiment would be more
"uniformly" outfitted.  Am I correct?

November 15, 1999
There was a re-enactor at Boscobel who wore the uniform....didn't catch his
name but I have seen him on several occasions at 2nd WVI events. Pretty
serious about his research, worked closely with Lance Herdegen, Bill
Brewster, et al.  Short Dark Hair and eyes, slim build, mustache/beard
(probably just a beard...).  Looked like a pretty decent design/summer
weight wool.

Also, one of the guys in the 2nd, Co. K had a REAL .69 Belgian from the GAR
Museum in Boscobel. He had it at Boscobel.

RJ Samp

Bugler   2nd WVI, Co. K


Three Danada Square East
PMB # 173
Wheaton, IL   60187

rjsamp@ix.netcom.com <mailto:rjsamp@ix.netcom.com>

630.871.0828

November 15. 1999

Subject: Re: 2nd Wisconsin at Wilson's Creek 2000?

Has anyone come up with a pattern for the grays?  We want to wear them
throughout 2001.  We will make our own if we can agree upon a pattern.  The
boys out here are very interested in this portrayal.

(Ex-Lt.)  Happy slick sleeve Steve Bechtold
Company H
2d Wisconsin

November 15, 1999

The First Federal Division is hosting a big North/South Alliance  event
down at Wilson's Creek Missouri, June 16-18,2000
http://dabear.tzo.com/wilsonscreek/index.shtml

This battle featured German-descent soldiers fighting mits Sigel, early war
uniforms, and a stand up firefight similar to Brawner's Farm. I'll be there
as Division Bugler (mounted), similar to the impression at Chicky99.

Several of us were talking at Boscobel about coming up with a Gray 2nd
Wisconsin Wisconsin Militia uniform impression...probably the summer weight
variety worn at Bull Run.....
Wilson's Creek would be an ideal event to wear this uniform, even though
the 2nd Wis. wasn't there. Don Cope (our baseball pard from Boscobel and the
24th Iowa), is putting together a 1st Iowa impression battalion. Gray Frock
Coats, Black Pants, and Red Stripes (now that's catchy!). We could fall in
as a company in this battalion, wearing our Gray Wisconsin Militia
uniforms.....  not many of us want to try to procure .69 Belgian Muskets
and the early war leathers....but what say?

How about coming to Wilson's Creek 2000 in Gray and fall in with the 1st
Iowa? Especially after their football team allowed Ron to break the NCAA
rushing record last weekend??  :-)

Ja, I fights mit Sigel? Unser deutsches regimente?

RJ Samp
Horniste! Blas das signalle zum Angriffe!
Bugler   2nd WVI, Co. K


Three Danada Square East
PMB # 173
Wheaton, IL   60187

rjsamp@ix.netcom.com <mailto:rjsamp@ix.netcom.com>

630.871.0828

Gentlemen, 
November 12, 1999
I have decided to sell my '61 Springfield and buy a '42 smoothbore.  For
$300.00, the buyer will receive the rifle, sling, bayonet, scabbard, extra
nipple, brushes and swabs, and a bag .575 minie balls (if you are a live shooter and want them).  The rifle has been well managed, but has a few dings in the stock.
This is a great deal for the new REENACTOR.  If you are interested, drop me a line.

Also....  One my pards out here as a Jarnagin infantry frock coat (size 50) for sale;
it was bought this year and worn twice. He is asking $150.00.  Interested
parties should contact Ed Kelley of Co.E, 105th PVI at rebel48@sgi.net.

Jason Kritikos
Co. C
2d Wisconsin

Tim Fairchild
November 12, 1999

Doug Dobbs wrote:

 Dear friends of the South Mountain March,

I've added a couple dozen more pictures to the AAR page this evening.  Below
is the link that should take you there.

  http://nfis.com/~dougdobbs/battle-aar.htm

My intention is to intersperse these with paragraphs of text and more photos from you all, so please feel free to send me whatever you've got. I'd
 especially like photos of our forming up in Burkittsville and our bivouac on
 the Fisher farm.

And for those who have not heard, our efforts have been crowned with
tremendous success.  The State of NJ, apparently due to publicity generated in part through this event, is going to kick in $40,000 for the flag display
cases.  Which means you essentially raised $53,000 through your efforts.  It
looks like our funds will be applied towards interpretive displays at this
point.  For each one who marched and helped in any way, please accept my
 most profound thanks.  Onward and upward!

Doug

November 7, 1999

I believe the 2nd Wisconsin received their Lorenz rifles in January 1862 or
so but does anyone know when they gave them up? I recently received a
picture of my gt. gt. grandfather and his 2 brothers, who were in the 2nd
WVI Co. C during 1862, and I'm trying to date it based on their uniforms &
equipment.  Since 2 of the brothers are carrying Lorenz's it would be useful
to know when the company switched to more modern weapons.  Nolan ("The Iron
Brigade") says the Wisconsin troops received Springfields in February '62
but I suspect that date may be too early for the 2nd.  Thanks for any help.
--
Steve Wyrick <sjwyrick@earthlink.net> -- 

Concord, CA, 
2nd Wisc Co. H

Hope this helps

(We sent an invitation to correspondent "C" of the Sentinel, but he could not be present. I got these documents of "W.R.S." the correspondent of the Northwestern. We tried to see which could drink the most Catawba. I beat him a very little and then I took these from him Those long promised guns have at last got here; they arrived direct from Austria and we got them yesterday, the 18th of January. They are called the Austrian rifle, and I think will shoot a great distance and do duty they are rather rough outside, and look clumsy enough, but we don't care a continental for looks, it they will kill.
P.S.,  
January 19,1862)

(It would be interesting to learn if the 2d received other weapons later in the war. ed)